Talk:Songs

Some conventions

Just to clarify some of the conventions I have been following here:

1. I avoid using curly quotes (“ ” and ‘ ’) and curly apostrophes (’) in favor of the straight versions (" and '). (This is a site-wide convention, actually. Curly punctuation is only used as necessary to match the titles of external sources, like articles, YouTube videos, etc.)
2. I only include the name of the original artist after a song title [e.g., "(Adele song)"] if there are multiple songs under the same title listed at Wikipedia (or should be). Such disambiguators are only used in link targets [e.g., "All of Me (John Legend song)"] if Angelina has actually sung multiple different songs with the same title.
3. Other disambiguators used by Wikipedia in their article titles [e.g., "(song)"] are given in <!-- HTML comments -->, to potentially aid in the creation of articles for those songs (since such articles always link to the relevant Wikipedia artices).

- dcljr (talk) 12:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Regarding

1. Ok, I'll try to follow that.

I was wondering if there is a threshold of what you want to include here? I added the Modern Talking stuff as it seemed to be in the same category as what you added before that. But then there is stuff like the latest two additions on the "H S" channel, were she is mostly singing along, her voice is hardly discernable (she might just be lip-syncing), and it's really short. I don't cover those in my playlists so far.

- Most2dot0 (talk) 14:17, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Historically, I have included some things where she is seen singing but not heard (for example, "There Was a Princess Long Ago" and "Hurra for deg"). However, if it is apparent that she is only mouthing the words, then I wouldn't include it (and that includes her "traditional-style" TikToks, where the lip-syncing is the whole point of the video). Of course, it's gonna be a judgment call sometimes. (BTW, sorry I haven't been checking for questions like this more often. I'll try to address the questions you've already asked elsewhere sometime "soon".) - dcljr (talk) 06:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Regarding

2.: that as an complexity that causes issues with the songs data tables, as it some things that my change over time (like when Angelina did the 2nd Crazy song). In the Data:SongsToVideos.json I define the "title" and "disambiguation" fields, and the idea leave the title pur, and put the "xxx song" designation to the disambiguation. I then automatically construct the link to the related songs page, but that will point in many cases to "Title (OriginalArtist song)" whereas it is just "Title", as Angelina sang only one version. Now, I could solve this by some annotation, like that it only gets appened if the disamiguation starts with a "+" character. Then there are the special versions for "Crazy", where for the Willie Nelson/Patsy Cline song you even have a different attribution in the songe page title than in the song lists display. That could e.g. be worked around, by mentioning Patsy Cline in the comment (once that gets displayed). ~ Most2dot0 (talk) 17:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Regarding

3.: I could put these also in the comments, though I doubt many people would find them there if the get not printed. ~ Most2dot0 (talk) 17:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

"Home" twice

I decided to leave it at "Home" for Angelina's version of the song, as in this Wiki the general rule is that everything is about her, unless otherwise noted. --Most2dot0 (talk) 22:04, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

Good instinct… but arguably by that logic that title would seem to belong to an article about Angelina's home. (!?) I dunno… I'm also reconsidering my choice of Oslo for the song and Oslo, Norway for the city. Perhaps we should go ahead and use Oslo (song) and just Oslo for the city, and Home (Angelina Jordan song) for Angelina's song [since Home (song) would not be sufficiently disambiguating]? Or maybe Home (original song) (maintaining the theme of everything's about Angelina). Hmm… - dcljr (talk) 03:41, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

Beyond The Dream

The "the" in "Beyond The Dream" is written with a starting capital letter on the album, as opposed to the "for" in "Falling for You". I initially put it in here in lower case, too, but now made the mistake to have it in upper case in the Performances.json-devel. However, do you want to follow the apparent spelling mistake on the album anyway? It's in there on all platforms it seams. --Most2dot0 (talk) 22:14, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

I am willing to assume that both are "non-significant" deviations from the normal naming conventions (i.e., that the capitalized "The" and "For" don't have any special meaning), but we can just go with what's seen in the current sources (and redirect the standard title case forms to the nonstandard ones) until we have evidence that the capitalization is, indeed, not significant. It really doesn't make much difference until we have actual articles for the songs, anyway. [grin] - dcljr (talk) 03:53, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

Replace with list of data from database

@Dcljr: I think we are close to replace this manual song list with one generated from the Cargo database. Here are some points I would like you to be aware of/consider:
1. I think the additonal remarks and references are not required, as having them in the song article, for example in "note" field, is sufficient. If you want to keep some, I'd recommend to introduce a new field like "info" for really short notes that would appear here.
2. "Back to Black" is here taged with a star (★), but it is not marked as an orignial in the database. My proposal is to leave it without the star, since Angelina nowadays sings it with original lyrics. As an alternative, we could put it into the "disambiguation" field, then it would show up as "Back to Black (★)", with only the "Back to Black" in bold. Or this would be an occasion, were such an "info" field could put to use, if we want to have it.
3. I thik the sentences why a song is included here (Rusty's list, etc.) is obsolete, as the references are in the song articles.
4. The note about starting articles should be adopted to what's to be done to add a song to the list, i.e. creating an article stub. Possibly offer an easier way, like to comment in a section of the discussion page?
5. I would propose to integrate the replacement for this with the performances listing "Songs by title". I was sucessful in recreating my usual table format with Cargo queries, have a look here to get the idea (note, that the inner table/performances listings have not yet the final form): Template:SongsTable-devel. If you prefer it, I think it would be possible to also recreate the list format used here.
6. Note, that the numbering is not achievable with Cargo queries based tables, but I might be able to use the "#" numbering when creating a list based format. However, I think the numbering is misleading anyhow, as its not fixed and wil change if songs are added before existing entries. I assume its purpose was to determine the total count, and that could be achieved otherwise.
7. The Cargo "Songs" table now contains entries of types original/cover/redirect, and "section headers" (type=""). I guess you are not happy about the latter (two?), but this makes it much easier to generate the A-Z anchors in the table. Otherwise we'd have to call a seperate sub-query for each letter.
--Most2dot0 (talk) 12:48, 3 November 2025 (UTC)

My replies/thoughts:

1. Yes, now that we actually have articles for everything, the refs and more extensive notes can be merged into the articles. I'd imagine some things are worth noting on this page, but I have not gone through to see which ones.
2. I think we should explicitly distinguish between Angelina's version and Amy's. IOW, have two different entries, one for each. I mean, apart from the fact that they use the same music, they really are two totally different songs. (And if we're not gonna number the entries anymore…)
3. Removed.
4. Removed (in same edit as above). New instructions can be added, if necessary, once we have the new version in place.
5. Go for it. Do whatever you think is best. I'll complain later.[wink]
6. RIP numbered list.:'-( Is it possible to generate a numbered list sorted by the earliest performance date?</wishful-thinking> And it is possible to have Cargo output just the number of items that match a condition? For example, could it spit out 294 as the number of songs she has sung (according to the current version of the page, anyway) and/or 37 as the number of originals (I am tenaciously hanging onto her version of BiB as an original) and/or 258 as the number of covers (counting Amy's BiB as a cover)?
7. Uh, OK. As usual, I will complain later, if necessary.[grin]

- dcljr (talk) 02:48, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

Regarding:
2. I'm afraid that has some other cavet: It will split the performances between the two songs as well, making it difficult to represent them together in database extracts. Currently it's all in one song entry, and the lyrics version is noted in the performance comment.
5. ok, 'will do...
6. That should be possible, also with some cavets, though: If the performance date is not exactly known, there is currently often just the year given. Even if we know that e.g. it was performed at Christmas time of the year, it then might be listed before the summer premieres. Anyway, here's the list for the originals:

{{#cargo_query:tables=Songs, Performances|fields=Songs.page, Performances.date|where=Songs.type='original'|join on=Songs.page=Performances.song|group by=Songs.page|order by=Performances.date ASC, Songs.title ASC|format=ol}}

⇘

1. Oslo (date: 2017-11)
2. What Is Life (date: 2017-11)
3. Shield (date: 2018)
4. Song for A (date: 2018)
5. Above the Water (date: 2019)
6. Woman (date: 2019)
7. Mama (date: 2019 ?)
8. 7th Heaven (date: 2020)
9. Memories (date: 2020)
10. Million Miles (date: 2020)
11. Shadows (date: 2020)
12. All My Fault (date: 2022)
13. Bad Valentine (date: 2022)
14. Diamond (date: 2022)
15. Fire and Rain (date: 2022)
16. Good in Goodbyes (date: 2022)
17. Love Don't Let Me Go (date: 2022)
18. Now I'm the Fool (date: 2022)
19. Our Time (date: 2023)
20. We're the Best (date: 2023-02-27)
21. Princess of Ruins (date: 2024-02-29)
22. Thank You (date: 2024-09-20)
23. What Am I to You (date: 2024-09-20)
24. A Christmas Prayer (date: 2025)
25. All I want is you (date: 2025)
26. Beyond the Dream (date: 2025)
27. Christmas, I’m not alone (date: 2025)
28. Eternal Love (date: 2025)
29. Every wish begins with you (date: 2025)
30. Falling for You (date: 2025)
31. Glory Shines For Everyone (date: 2025)
32. Home (date: 2025)
33. Kiss Me One Last Time (date: 2025)
34. No One Can Hear My Heart (date: 2025)
35. Play No Game (date: 2025)
36. Romeo (date: 2025)
37. Since You Walked Away (date: 2025)
38. So Peaceful Beside You (date: 2025)
39. Summer Wind (date: 2025)
40. Tears Became My Endless Sea (date: 2025)
41. The Light Is Fading (date: 2025)
42. When I Come Back (date: 2025)
43. Who’ll wipe their tears away (date: 2025)
44. Always Yours (date: 2025-07)

And for the complete list, or the list of covers, we would likely want to have it sectioned by the year, so that's the same issue as with the A-Z headers.
Counting filtered entries is easy:

{{#cargo_query: tables=Songs|fields=COUNT(*)|where=Songs.type='original'|group by=Songs.type}}

⇒ 44
The issue with Cargo's SQL subset is, that is doesn't allow computed fields. But there might be a workaround method that works for both the A-Z and years: calculate it at time of storage and store it in an extra field (which I just did for the video "rating", which calculate a rating based on performance type, and video duration and quality indication). So we could store the year of the performance date (and similar the first letter of the title) in extra fields, then we can group in Cargo queries with that. (EDIT: I just found out that there are some functions, that should allow to group by starting character or year --Most2dot0 (talk) 21:54, 4 November 2025 (UTC)) We'd still need to subquery each year (or starting letter) to get the actual performance entries, but we wouldn't need to specify each value explicitly, but have it done through template calls of the previous level (that's also how the inner tables for each song titles are created currently). However, numbering entries would still be an issue. But to be clear about that: we can also query the Cargo database with Lua in modules, and though my generic createTable() function has not implemented that, I could add it as I had it in the earlier, more specific Module:SongsTable. There are other things, that are currently more difficult (or not achievable at all) with the configured tables generated by my Lua Performances.createTable() function, like more complex if-then-else constructs used e.g. to distuingush the complex (i.e. involving several field names) entries for redirects from those for orignals and covers. I could extend it for that as well, but the computed-field syntax is sort of a language of its own, that's getting more complex with every feature added. OTOH, I prefer that the definition of the complete table is all in one place, instead of being spread over several templates, as the cargo_query approach requires it (for nice formatting, that is). --Most2dot0 (talk) 10:30, 4 November 2025 (UTC)